Before The 'D'...Association Football around the world, 1863-1937.: Notts County

Showing posts with label Notts County. Show all posts

8.11.17

D.H Lawrence

In The Cambridge Companion to Football (2013) Peter Stead refers to D.H Lawrence as the only great modern British novelist from a working class background .

In his 1913 story Strike Pay, Lawrence describes a group of striking miners walking to Nottingham to watch Notts County play Aston Villa on a Wednesday afternoon.

It was a good match between Notts and Villa — no goals at half-time, two-none for Notts at the finish. The colliers were hugely delighted, especially as Flint, the forward for Notts, who was an Underwood man well known to the four comrades, did some handsome work, putting the two goals through.

Notts played Villa in a rearranged League match on Wednesday March 13th, 1912.

Billy Flint was indeed from Underwood. He was a versatile player who represented County 408 times (1908-26).

Whereas Lawrence has Flint as the scorer of both goals, former Villa player Billy Matthews was the scorer of the second. Notts went from 15th to 14th in Division 1 as a result of this win, Villa were 6th.
The return match 3 days later saw Villa win 5-1.

You can read the story Strike Pay here...

19.6.16

Harry Cursham

Between 1877 and 1888 Harry Cursham played in 43 FA Cup ties for Notts County. He scored 49 goals, more than any other player has ever managed in the competition. County were semi finalists in 1883 and 1884.
Cursham also represented England 8 times (1880-84) scoring 5 goals.

24.9.14

White Hart Lane

Tottenham Hotspur moved to White Hart Lane (site of a market garden) in 1899. These photographs show the first match played at the new enclosed ground, which had a capacity of 35,000. Notts County (stripes) were the visitors.

28.7.14

The Post Football Guide 1905

From the Nottingham Evening Post, August 1905.

The appetite of working class and lower middle class men and boys for football in the media was as great then as it is now. The difference, of course, was the limited means of providing the information. Newspapers and magazines were always ready to milk a few pounds out of the game by publishing special editions and yearbooks.

Nottingham readers had just endured a fairly miserable season.

1904-05 Forest had finished 16th in Division 1, while County were bottom in 18th, escaping relegation only by the expansion of the league.

1905-06 was little better for County. They claimed 16th spot whilst Forest were relegated in 19th.

16.3.14

Nottingham

Notts County are the oldest football team in the world to currently play at a professional level, although their foundation pre dates Association and they played a hybrid form of the game in their earliest days. In 1864, the decision was made to play games against outside opposition.
The following year Forest was founded by bandy players (bandy being a stick and ball game). James Catton, who spent some time living in Nottingham, states that initially County were considered more of an upper crust outfit, with Forest being more associated with the city people, workers and small businessmen.

Here's a timeline of the early years:

	Notts. County	Nottingham Forest
1862	Formed on 28 November, playing at Park Hollow (Nottingham Castle).
1864	December- decide to play against outside opposition.
		1865	Foundation
1866	22 March: First meeting of the 2 clubs- Forest’s first game. 11 of County drew 0-0 with 17 of Forest at Forest Recreation Ground; 19 April: rematch also finishes 0-0
1869	Join FA
1872	Ernest Greenhalgh plays for England v Scotland in international #1
1877	03.11.77- first FA cup tie
1878	County are knocked out of the FA Cup by Forest (see below for details of this, the first competitive match between the two)	1878-79	Join FA Enter the FA cup for the first time and reach the semi-final.
1883	Move to Trent Bridge Cricket ground
1888	Founder members of Football League
		1889	Founding members of Alliance
		1891	Move to Town Ground
		1892	Join Football League
1894	FA Cup Winners
		1898	FA Cup Winners Move to City Ground
1910	Move to Meadow Lane

The 1878 FA Cup match:

Supplement to the Nottinghamshire Guardian 22.11.78

If the reporter got the formations right it looks like Notts (County) were playing a good old fashioned 1-3-6, whereas Forest must surely have been the first team in the history of the game to line up in a 4-2-4!

	Notts (County)
Goal	H. Greenhalgh
Backs	Dobson*
Halves		E.H Greenhalgh(c)*	Seals		Morse*
Forwards	A.W Cursham*	R. Greenhalgh	C. Cursham	Owen*	H.Cursham*	Oliver


Forwards		Earp	Turner	Goodyer*	Smith
Halves		Holroyd			Bates
Backs		Widdowson (c)*	E. Luntley*	W. Luntley	Caborn
Goal	Sands*
	Forest

* England internationals

Here's a look at how the 2 clubs progressed and how the bragging rights in the city changed hands down the years:

	Notts. County		Nottingham Forest
season	League	FA Cup	League	FA Cup
1877-78		R1
1878-79		R1		SF
1879-80		R1		SF
1880-81		R3		R2
1881-82		R3		R1
1882-83		SF		R3
1883-84		SF		R2
1884-85		QF		SF
1885-86		R5		R3
1886-87		QF		R3
1887-88		R3		R5
1888-89	11^th	R2		R2
1889-90	10^th	QF		R1
1890-91	3^rd	finalists		R3
1891-92	8^th	R1		SF
1892-93	14^th	R2	10^th	R2
1893-94	Div 2. 3^rd	winners	Div 1. 7^th	R3
1894-95	Div 2. 2^nd	R1	Div 1. 7^th	R3
1895-96	Div 2. 10^th	R1	Div 1. 13^th	R1
1896-97	Div 2. winners	R2	Div 1. 11^th	R3
1897-98	Div 1. 13^th	R1	Div 1. 8^th	winners
1898-99	Div 1. 5^th	R2	Div 1.11^th	R3
1899-00	Div 1. 15^th	R2	Div 1. 8^th	SF
1900-01	Div 1. 3^rd	R2	Div 1. 4^th	R2
1901-02	Div 1. 13^th	R1	Div 1. 5^th	SF
1902-03	Div 1. 15^th	R3	Div 1.10^th	R2
1903-04	Div 1. 13^th	R1	Div 1. 9^th	R2
1904-05	Div 1. 18^th	R1	Div 1.16^th	R2
1905-06	Div 1.16^th	R1	Div 1. 19^th(r)	R3
1906-07	Div 1. 18^th	R4	Div 2. winners	R1
1907-08	Div 1. 18^th	R2	Div 1. 9^th	R1
1908-09	Div 1. 15^th	R1	Div 1. 14^th	R4
1909-10	Div 1. 9^th	R1	Div 1. 14^th	R3
1910-11	Div 1. 11^th	R1	Div 1. 20^th(r)	R1
1911-12	Div 1.16^th	R2	Div 2. 15^th	R1
1912-13	Div 1. 19^th(r)	R1	Div 2. 17^th	R2
1913-14	Div 2. winners	R1	Div 2. 20^th	R1
1914-15	Div 1.16^th	R1	Div 2. 18^th	R1

1919-20	Div 1. 21^st(r)	R3	Div 2. 18^th	R1
1920-21	Div 2. 6^th	R2	Div 2. 18^th	R1
1921-22	Div 2. 13^th	SF	Div 2. winners	R3
1922-23	Div 2. winners	R1	Div 1. 20^th	R1
1923-24	Div 1.10^th	R2	Div 1. 20^th	R1
1924-25	Div 1. 9^th	R3	Div 1. 22^nd(r)	R2
1925-26	Div 1. 22^nd(r)	R5	Div 2. 17^th	QF
1926-27	Div 2.16^th	R3	Div 2. 5^th	R4
1927-28	Div 2. 15^th	R3	Div 2.10^th	QF
1928-29	Div 2. 5^th	R3	Div 2.11^th	R3
1929-30	Div 2. 22^nd(r)	R3	Div 2.10^th	QF
1930-31	Div 3^swinners	R4	Div 2. 17^th	R3
1931-32	Div 2.16^th	R3	Div 2.11^th	R3
1932-33	Div 2. 15^th	R3	Div 2. 5^th	R3
1933-34	Div 2. 18^th	R3	Div 2. 17^th	R4
1934-35	Div 2. 22^nd(r)	R3	Div 2. 9^th	R5
1935-36	Div 3^s. 9^th	R3	Div 2. 19^th	R4
1936-37	Div 3^s. 2^nd	R1	Div 2. 18^th	R3

Forest in the 1880s

County with the FA Cup -1894

And here's a head to head record of League and FA Cup matches:

Date	Home		Visitors
16.11.78	County	1	3	Forest	FAC
08.11.79	Forest	4	0	County	FAC
01.12.83	County	3	0	Forest	FAC
26.11.87	Forest	2	1	County	FAC
08.10.92	County	3	0	Forest	Div.1
25.02.93	Forest	3	1	County	Div.1
24.02.94	Forest	1	1	County	FAC
03.03.94	County	4	1	Forest	FAC
04.09.97	Forest	1	1	County	Div.1
09.10.97	County	1	3	Forest	Div.1
08.10.98	County	2	2	Forest	Div.1
04.02.99	Forest	0	0	County	Div.1
11.11.99	County	1	2	Forest	Div.1
17.03.00	Forest	0	3	County	Div.1
24.11.00	Forest	5	0	County	Div.1
26.12.00	County	1	0	Forest	Div.1
16.11.01	County	3	0	Forest	Div.1
26.12.01	Forest	1	0	County	Div.1
15.11.02	Forest	0	0	County	Div.1
26.12.02	County	1	1	Forest	Div.1
28.11.03	County	1	3	Forest	Div.1
25.12.03	Forest	0	1	County	Div.1
26.11.04	Forest	2	1	County	Div.1
25.03.05	County	1	2	Forest	Div.1
04.11.05	County	1	1	Forest	Div.1
25.12.05	Forest	1	2	County	Div.1
07.12.07	Forest	2	0	County	Div.1
04.04.08	County	2	0	Forest	Div.1
21.11.08	County	3	0	Forest	Div.1
27.03.09	Forest	1	0	County	Div.1
04.09.09	Forest	2	1	County	Div.1
08.01.10	County	4	1	Forest	Div.1
03.09.10	County	1	1	Forest	Div.1
31.12.10	Forest	0	2	County	Div.1
25.12.13	County	2	2	Forest	Div.2
26.12.13	Forest	1	0	County	Div.2
11.09.20	Forest	1	0	County	Div.2
18.09.20	County	2	0	Forest	Div.2
05.11.21	County	1	1	Forest	Div.2
14.11.21	Forest	0	0	County	Div.2
22.09.23	County	2	1	Forest	Div.1
29.09.23	Forest	1	0	County	Div.1
20.09.24	County	0	0	Forest	Div.1
24.01.25	Forest	0	0	County	Div.1
18.09.26	County	1	2	Forest	Div.2
05.02.27	Forest	2	0	County	Div.2
17.09.27	Forest	2	1	County	Div.2
22.02.28	County	1	2	Forest	Div.2
20.10.28	County	1	1	Forest	Div.2
02.03.29	Forest	1	2	County	Div.2
07.09.29	Forest	1	1	County	Div.2
04.01.30	County	0	0	Forest	Div.2
03.10.31	Forest	2	1	County	Div.2
13.02.32	County	2	6	Forest	Div.2
08.10.32	County	2	4	Forest	Div.2
18.02.33	Forest	3	0	County	Div.2
07.10.33	Forest	2	0	County	Div.2
17.02.34	County	1	0	Forest	Div.2
29.09.34	County	3	5	Forest	Div.2
09.02.35	Forest	2	3	County	Div.2

	W	G
County	17	73
Forest	27	87
Draws	16