Showing posts with label Ernest Mangnall. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Ernest Mangnall. Show all posts

30.11.15

Manchester United in Central Europe 1908



United and Ferencváros

Having won the League Championship for the first time in the 1907-08 season, Manchester United, under the leadership of Ernest Mangnall, embarked on their first overseas tour.


06.05.08
Zurich Select
2*
4
Manchester United        
Zurich
11.05.08**
Slavia
0
2
Manchester United        
Prague
12.05.08***
Slavia
0
2
Manchester United        
Prague
13.05.08
WSC
0
4
Manchester United        
Vienna
15.05.08
WAC
0
5
Manchester United        
Vienna
17.05.08
Vienna Select
0
4
Manchester United        
Vienna
22.05.08
Budapest Select ****
2
6
Manchester United        
Budapest
24.05.08
Ferencváros
0
7
Manchester United        
Budapest

* 1 in some sources
** In some sources 09.05.08
*** in some sources 10.05.08

**** teams represented were MTC, Ferencváros & BTC

I can only find a full team listing for the game with WAC-Moger, Stacey, Burgess, Duckworth , Thompson, Downie, Meredith, Bannister,Turnbull, Picken, Wall- a strong United XI.
As Mr Mangnall commented on his return to England that United would never play Slavia again I can only assume that there was some controversy attached to the games in Prague- the English press reports contain nothing that enlightens us on this matter. 
In Vienna, the press commented, the referee ran along the touchline 'in a tremendous state of excitement...some of the attitudes he struck were simply magnificent'. The United players in this match were also surprised by the presence of some Oldham Athletic supporters- expats living in Vienna who attended despite the 1s 8d admission price. 
The game that attracted the most attention was the clash with Ferencváros.  The game ended with United being escorted from the ground by armed mounted police having being pelted with stones by the spectators (there were 16,000 present). Thompson received a superficial injury. 
Refereeing was the issue, as was often the case with overseas games in this era. The rules on the continent tended to be interpreted differently- physical contact, a staple of the English game, was frowned upon. 
Firstly it would appear that there were 'goal judges' deployed at the posts who actually interfered with the play in some way. 
There was controversy over a penalty awarded to United-  a United forward 'cleverly rolled into the penalty area' after being fouled, According to Hungarian sources the referee was aware of the deceit but was placed under pressure by the Manchester United players. Goalkeeper Moger scored the penalty to complete the 7-0 scoreline.
There is also some suggestion that the referee wished to dismiss 3 United players for overly physical play. Ferencváros lost 2 players to injury. Communication broke down and when one of the United men (Thompson) placed a hand on the referees shoulder the crowd became incensed.
Some reports held that there were no hard feelings after the game and that the 2 sides dined together, a suggestion dismissed by Mr Mangnall.


Manchester Courier

Incidentally, in the Ferencváros game 2 of the great players of the era shared a pitch for the only time. Billy Meredith and Imre Schlosser made 116 international appearances between them in careers that totalled 48 years.


19.9.14

Manchester United's First FA Cup Win -1909



GK
England Harry Moger
RB
England George Stacey
LB
England Vince Hayes
RH
England Dick Duckworth
CH
England Charlie Roberts (c)
LH
Scotland Alex Bell
OR
Wales Billy Meredith
IR
England Harold Halse
CF
Scotland Jimmy Turnbull
IL
Scotland Sandy Turnbull
OL
England George Wall


United played in a white strip with a red chevron.


The toss, the captains were the two great centre halves, Charlie Roberts and Billy Wedlock. Referee Mr Jim Mason.


A great view of Crystal Palace as the game gets underway. Note the 2-3-5 formations.


 Sandy Turnbull scores for United. Turnbull was later implicated in the 1915 Betting Scandal and was  banned for life from football. Turnbull was killed in action in Arras (1917). His life ban was posthumously rescinded by the Football Association in 1919 (!).


2.1.14

Ernest Mangnall



Ernest Mangnall is the only man to have managed both Manchester City and Manchester United. 
 Mangnall's first position in 'management' was with Burnley. He  joined the club in March 1900, with relegation already a certainty.  He was in charge at Turf Moor for 3 whole seasons- after missing out on promotion by 4 points in the first there followed a modest mid table term and then re election having finished very bottom of Division 2. 
Mangnall  must have shown some administrative flair though. When Manchester United (one year on from the renaissance of Newton Heath) were looking for a new 'secretary' (United didn't have a 'manager' until 1914) he was the man they recruited. After missing out narrowly on promotion for his first 2 seasons, Mangnall guided United back into the First Division in 1905 after a 13 season absence. 
During his 9 seasons with the club, Manchester United won their first major honours, 2  League Championships (1908, 1911)  and an FA Cup (1909). 
Magnall's move to City was soured by the fact that in September 1912 he was still in charge of United when the 2 sides met at Old Trafford. The press picked up on the fact that Magnall showed undisguised joy that City  his 'new team', had won 1-0. 
The Magnall era at Hyde Road was punctuated by the war- in  8 seasons no silverware was won, but City were the dominant Manchester side.
Magnall oversaw Billy Meredith's return to City in 1921 having signed him for United in 1906. On both occasions Meredith had been on a 'free transfer'- though United had paid him a signing on fee of £500 in 1906. 

Season
Div.
Pos.
FA Cup
Burnley
157 games  36.31% win
1900-01
Div 2
3rd
R2 1
1901-02
Div 2
9th
R1
1902-03
Div 2
18th
IR2
Manchester United
471 games 51.38% win
1903-04
Div 2
3rd
R2
1904-05
Div 2
3rd
IR
1905-06
Div 2
2nd
R4
1906-07
Div 1
8th
R1
1907-08
Div 1
Winners
R4
1908-09
Div 1
13th
Winners
1909-10
Div 1
5th
R1 3
1910-11
Div 1
Winners
R3
1911-12
Div 1
13th
R4
Manchester City
350 games 43.14% win
1912–13
Div 1
6th
R2
1913-14
Div 1
13th
R4
1914-15
Div 1
5th
R3




1919-20
Div 1
7th
R2
1920-21
Div 1
2nd
R1
1921-22
Div 1
10th
R3
1922-23
Div 1
8th
R1
1923-24
Div 1
11th
semi-final
Total
978 games 46.01% win
1 Beat Newton Heath 7-1 in R1
2 IR= Intermediate round- a preliminary round before R1

Knocked out by Burnley